how far do you wanna take it? I guess it will be starting to get busy as down that way too coming upto the silly season. They are stronger and lighter and still have excellent crossflow. Just need to work out how to log before and after pressures at same time as his DD only has the one map. Fiesta ST Forum is the premier Fiesta ST community. That is one hell of a good guarantee and please don't get me wrong here, I'm not trying to start anything by pointing this out and I'm deffinately no fanboy of one style or the other. Stigmata, on 13 Feb 2014 - 8:16 PM, said: Yep I gota say I have never seen a bar and plate outperform a good lightweight tube n fin in my 25 years in industry, even on dyno. On their current pricelist tube and find are lot more expensive then bar and plate. For obvious reasons thermal transfer rates are varied greatly by the amount of time the charge air spends within the coolers tubes to exchange thermal energy with the atmosphere. The flow area was calculated and I didn't expect this much of a difference to be … The bar and plate has 23 flow tubes, while the tube and fin has only 19. In the Plate Fin design, tube holes are pressed in thin sheets of metal, where tubes are inserted and then expanded. Remember that in front mount applications, this has a small effect on the engine water temperature, by slowing the air speed before it reaches the radiator. The offsetting of internal fins helps further the increase internal surface area which is so vital to efficient thermal transfer as well as helping turbulate the charge air. Almost everybody makes fin tube in residential splits. In a stacking platform Manufacturing process. The next most interesting thing is total flow area of the two cores. Stigmata, 26/10/14 10:58 AM in Intercooler Workshop. Its not as simple as whats written above. If the flow area is small then air speed is higher than that of a larger flow area where charge air will have more time for effective thermal transfer. If you are on the fence about which cooler to buy...buy the tube and fin....I will send you my product at no cost...have your tuner back to back the two.....if the tube and fin performs better send my product back and I will pay for the tube and fin product....ask the tube and fin fella if he will offer the same guarantee. This efficient cooling system will cost you more than the tube-fin cooler. Nortek also is big in MC, actually using them in heat pumps and in A coils. Will do a total volume check on both coolers once they have tanks on. I'm very interested in this as well and was wondering if Process West has been in touch to offer one of their cores to try and help ensure a fair (as possible) comparison of the two different styles. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Technically they were never designed for automotive applications. Although the principals of Plate Heat Exchangers are very similar to Shell and Tube the construction is very different. Legal | Privacy. Then fill them with liquid and measure. Before Van Nuys they were located in West LA on Olympic. BAR AND FIN.....Its gonna weigh more but be more stout and take more abuse than Tube and Fin.....there are tons of intercoolers out there. 3,701 Posts . One can say that the plate and fin coolers are pretty efficient in cooling the transmission fluids. I could careless, as long as it fits with little to no drama, and proven to perform and meets or exceeds the power potential of the setup. Plate-fin and tube-fin heat exchangers have found application in a wide variety of industries. This highly efficient fin type provides a very large surface area that helps evenly distribute heat. Bit better shot of the fins but still not best lighting. Thanks for doing this Stigmata. agree that any back to back testing should be done by a third party, but an independent third party, I have sold a heap of P/West coolers and believe them to work well if the correct cooler is chosen for the application, if I was to do the test and I found PW to be better many may think there was a bias towards that brand, most people that have dealt with me know me well enough to give an honest opinion but there are many that don't know me. Bar and plate (on left) Vs. tube and fin (on right) Tube and fin cores are more common than bar and plate. on a build that is non-specific for a street car I look at 3 factors. Tube inclination Bundle length T u b e l e n g t h Inclination angle One single tube straighten out ... Plate-fin heat exchanger Principal function. Contact . 6 diesel oil. "The bar and plate core was sourced from overseas, has internal offset fins, so is up with usual type being offered". Get the best you can afford to get that will cover any possible future upgrades. Unfortunately graphs are too small to show any small differences. I only ask this because of the post below, http://www.fordxr6turbo.com/forum/topic/87411-plaz-vs-process-west/?p=1455069, Posted by Process West on 13 February 2014 - 09:05 PM. Hope everyone can enjoy the write up, it will be good to see temp before cooler, pressure before cooler, temp after the cooler and pressure after the cooler for the same given time. Heres some pics of the core internals of a mates stepped cooler. This is excellent that you're doing this off your own back Jon. Blue track/street build - salvage restoration. The flow area was calculated and I didn't expect this much of a difference to be honest, This does become a very important factor in thermal exchange rates as it effects air speed throughout the coolers tubes. Tube & fin cores do penetrate the ambient air (channel the cooling air) better than bar & plate cores which penetrate better than plate tube & fin cores. Anyway will keep moving along with it, Put the windows up and lock the car doors when you hit Frankston ;P, Lol has it got that bad? The tube and fin measures in at 480mm x 430 x 100mm thick. Ford thought the radiator was adequate on our Fiesta ST and that has proven to not be the case. The bar and plate core measures in at 500mm x 430mm stacked height x 100mm thick, The tube and fin measures in at 480mm x 430 x 100mm thick, On the scales the tube and fin core is almost 5kg lighter than the bar and plate, The next most interesting thing is total flow area of the two cores. I think you will be surprised.. Ok if you would like me to do that Arrom no problems at all. The bar and plate has 23 flow tubes, while the tube and fin has only 19. Will be logging it all for sure. 1. tube and fin 2. bar and plate There is much debate as to which construction method is best. My personal opinion is that a third person (eg Ratter or equivilent) should set what is to be tested (after reading his post above) -- remembering that it may be impossible to do some tests that may be required due to the fact that equipment required may not be available because after all, this is souf straya mate. Therefore, they can easily be integrated into a full vehicle. The Derale Tube-Fin Oil Cooler # D15551 does not use a thermostat. "Typical tube-and-fin units utilize extruded tubes with fins pressed into place. Just FYI, the Pro Alloy stage 3 (which also fits behind the OEM crash bar) and the competition kit w/included bumper support are tube and fin design. This will take me a fair amount of time as I need to squeeze it all in between jobs. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. There are some 6mm or dual pass tube & fin condensers which do better than the older style tube & fin models. I's and V's Microchannel coils are a different type of condenser coil. Typically, a modular cooler (such as the Earl’s coolers shown in the photos below) will reject as much as three times the heat for a given area than a tube-and-fin cooler. There is internal volume and internal / external surface area. On the flip side, I don't know how much turbulence the radiator style would induce in … Tube and Fin have better flow and will cool back down faster once it is heated. Not quite...the bar and plate core you have is very open in its fin configuration. Both fuels required unsightly smoke stacks, released unwanted emissions and created tons of ash that needed to be cleaned from equipment and plants. I wouldn't over think it. Was living at Safety Beach years ago. There are many pros and cons with each design type, but no real hard data. Great work Jon! Evo IX and X vs. 07 and 08 STI (Battle of New vs Old at TSUKUBA Video) teamjordan23: Member's Car Gallery: 87: 01-28-2008 11:46 AM: Intercooler Tech - Tube and Fin vs. Bar and Plate: Innovative Tuning: Factory 2.0L Turbo Powertrain (EJ Series Factory 2.0L Turbo) 6: 12-15-2005 10:31 AM ('93-'01) AWD vs. RWD vs. FWD and Boxer vs. Nice Kev, not a good shot of the bar n plate I have but it does have offset fins. Cant wait to see the results. What are the power output limits of the stock engine on 93. They aslo do not flow air as well making them inefficent. Results will be interesting. Nor do I really care. Keen to supply a core to test bro? 4" P/B wins hands down for a centrifugal supercharger. Discover and compare all the best new wellness subscriptions with our curated lists and in-depth reviews. Make the end tanks the same volume. When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com Contact: ACKits.com One fluid goes through the tubes, and the second goes through the larger shell, surrounding the tubes. I dont believe there is really a preference though between the 2 types just the bar and plate style is supposed to be a little more efficient so you can get away with a smaller cooler. Okay so after lots of requests I have decided to run a back to back test between a bar and plate core and a tube and fin core. How effective is the stacked plate, modular design in comparison to a more common tube-and-fin arrangement? Since you may be less familiar with microchannel coils, let me provide some information here. Traditional tube and fin coils are the most common coils we sell. I will conduct a back to back test on the same vehicle on the same day with identical tanks on the coolers and keep the playing field as fair as possible logging before and after cooler temps, power etc etc. That top pics i could be wrong but i dont think it is a bar and plate style.The real bar/plate coolers dont have any fins. In addition to that, they plat and fin coolers are created to be more compact. Will drop in and say hello. There two main … Tube sizes measure the same and internal fin structure looks identical. Obviously internal volume is a direct reflection on flow area X the tube lengths given? Using oem is a poor example. If you are quoting numbers there is a lot more to it than flow area. Stainless steel plate fins have been used in aircraft for 30 years and are now becoming established in … Aluminum alloy plate fin heat exchangers have been used in the aircraft industry for 50 years and in cryogenics and chemical plant for 35 years. On the scales the tube and fin core is almost 5kg lighter than the bar and plate. If there are any other requests let me know anyone as I dont want to do this twice lol. FordXR6Turbo.com In general terms bar and plate design cores are more efficient in a small intercooler, opposingly fin and tube is recommended for a large one. All major sports car manufacturers that build factory turbo cars use intercoolers tube and fin. 1801 Waters Ridge Drive, Lewisville, TX 75057 . Testing & comparing the 3" tube and fin vs. the 4" plate and bar intercoolers. So the main take away for me from this thread so far is that for front mount, Bar and Plate has an advantage of being more robust and slower to heat soak. Wait till you build them. The number of fins per inch of tube length ranges from 11 to 43; fin height varies from about 0.02 to 0.125 in., and fin thickness ranges from 0.01 in. 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