I am trying to figure out if there is. I use push/pull with all four cpu fans 'another brand' connected. By the time 750RPM is reached it would appear that so far at least here Push/Pull does always outperform Push: It is noted that other distributors of same product define lifetime differently. The key is to find the correct ratio between the 'push' and 'pull' fans. Im trying to … For PC on the PC, a GameFAQs message board topic titled "Questions about push pull fan setups". The first exercise we’re going to cover in a typical push workout for mass is the incline barbell bench press. I was reading review site that said the best option to setup a liquid cooling system. DESPITE what Martin’s tests results were when it came to “sandwiching,” my config will be set up like this: 25mm Fan/65mm Rad/25mm Fan/65mm Rad/25mm Fan = 205mm total width (sandwiching 3 fans together side by side by side and using 2 thick wide-finned rads in-between). Neal: There's always a dead zone. Even a basic graph combining CFM and SP and having a direct linear connection between the gives a rough indication of performance,I know the curves are not linear in actuality but we are hardly cooling a nuclear device here.. You are confusing the US with the rest of the world,we do not use HI specs,we use the DIN/ISO certifications. If you are currently running one set of fans then you will get real value by adding some more. 20ish% improvements instead of 100% gels much better with what I have seen. As soon as you are using only one set of fans you’ve decided to give up on performance. At 1300rpm the difference is smaller though: How to install H100i as top-mounted push-pull inside HAF. Neither relates to whether air is flowing into our out of your case. Quote Reply Topic: PUSH PULL fan setup Posted: 18 Mar 2014 at 6:32pm: My new PC arrived today, and noticed all fans are taking air out of the PC; I have a Asetek 510LC 120MM push pull configuration, I am fairly new to this so my question is, the cooling push pull fan is blowing air out? Push/pull all the way. Clearly manufacturers believe that the majority of users only use one set of fans. I believe that the results of the setup that I will be using will be just fine. I wanted to keep the temperature tests as fair as possible in comparing 2 fans vs 4. As we are reviewing *performance* then we test with *performance* in mind. A push/pull with shrouds will give you the best performance. Getting a fmic, what type of slim fans do I need, pull or push fans. That means you can save money by buying the cheapest radiator possible. It’s often explained as “LEGO for adults.” But managing the air cooling system within a PC is considerably more complex. A pull set-up is Infact the most effective. Before we delve into other reasons and factors to consider we must first focus on performance. Some will then say that people don’t run push/pull setups so therefore that they don’t cater to them, but this is silly. You can make a cheap shroud out of a gutted fan. Please find the specs of the Iceblade attached below. How to set up a Push Pull setup on a Corsair H1. Help with optimal push/pull fan configuration Build Help I am hoping someone could give me advice as to whether or not I have my fan setup in the optimal positions Does your ac condensor fan push or pull? In other cultures accepting an initially offered price without going thru a haggling ritual is considered an insult. Fans I used were Scythe Gentle Typhoon (D1225C12B5AP-15) Its a good idea to clean the H100 when you have i. Website: http: //www. The CFM numbers are mostly irrelevant because they vary with resistance. So far with data from only three radiators we can see that the difference is nowhere near as drastic as we previously thought and so we are correcting this article based on the new information. 0I have no problem. For that reason we’ll be replacing Martin’s data on Push with our own shortly . Extreme Rigs would like to thank all sponsors: How to read a Pressure/Flow/Restriction Plot, extract W/10DeltaT numbers from fast_fate’s testing, Asus Strix Tactic Pro Mechanical Keyboard Review, EK Velocity CPU Block Mini Review and Quantum Design Line News, AMD Threadripper CPU Block Review Round Up, Koolance CPU-400I Intel CPU Water Block Review, Radiator Review Round Up 2015 - ExtremeRigs.net, https://martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com/2012/04/28/r9-fan-testing-gentle-typhoon-ap-29/, https://martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com/category/radiators/. The thinnest radiator that we tested was 30mm thick. Where there are life, safety and health implications, labeling, advertising claims etc, must be verifiable, meet applicable codes and guidelines, are routinely investigated and oft heavy fines and penalties levied. Greatly appreciated !!! 3dB. I want to maximise my cooling so I'm considering a push/pull set-up. If you’re building a system then it’s worth making push/pull work even if it means getting a slimmer radiator. Zero condition specs can only give you an indication of performance rather than the full picture of the PQ curve,Scythe are well known for reliable fan specs so to base a performance baseline from the specs provided is not unreasonable. Like I mentioned in my prior two posts, I want to thank you for this extensive and extremely detailed review (and even this update). 9 years ago. I don't doubt that some manufacturers do it out of ignorance, but for others, just as the number switch from 1. Now this may make a few people unhappy who didn’t approach their radiator design with this in mind, but this is the logical conclusion from the information that we have. Owners, engineers and plant operators have a legal right that the products procured under any contract meet the terms and conditions stipulated in said contract which was signed by all parties. This is contrary to our earlier claims which were based on poorly correlating data. They build cars in Europe and Asia, but they can NOT be sold here unless they are modified to meet US emissions standards.. Adding on 50mm of fans means that’s a total of 80mm. In other words that person should be choosing the radiator based on other more important factors e.g. So an obvious question arises, “Is it better to use the fan to push fresh air into the unit to be cooled (positive pressure), or to put the fan on the exhaust side and pull heated air through and out of it (negative pressure) (see Figure 1)?” It seems like a simple-enough question, and it … Let us then set out to make a case for why this should be changed. Note: Once the leg workouts are complete, I’ll be adding that into this article to complete the full push pull legs routine. For a fan at 1850RPM reducing noise by 3dB is equivalent to lowering the RPM to about 1600RPM. Basically a push-pull is a fan positioning/blowing setup that has air come in (pulled) through the front of the case and then shot (pushed) out the back. Push/Pull still comes in at 85%+, and the highest Push radiator is only at 70%. There are those who run both a pull and a push fan, utilizing the OEM fan mounted on the water pump, ... One thought is that with a dual fan setup, if one dies on you at least you have one to limp home on. Stunneronureyez. For other products, they are not. Quote: Originally Posted by B NEGATIVE At no point did i say the specs were fair,i just provided the information. What do you think? I just bought myself a Deepcool Gammaxx 400 CPU cooler, which comes with a Deepcool Iceblade 120mm pwm fan. Personally I have not seen much difference performance wise, maybe +/- 1c either way. Push means air goes fan -> radiator, pull means air goes radiator -> fan. That is not a thick radiator, so a push/pull setup would not really do anything except add noise. No one has statistics on the exact amount of course, but let’s assume this is true. TR: Don’t push-pull systems create an air flow dead zone in between the middle of the radiator? We did not test at exactly the same fan speeds or with the same fan. Radiator fans in push / pull setup. 30-40% on Push vs 85%+ on Push/Pull. Here in lies the problem – the additional fan increases the total thickness of the radiator setup by 25mm. Unless you also present data that supports the two type of fans being very similar concerning noise, airflow and static pressure. We will update with our own “push only” numbers when we have some which should give a far more accurate comparison! I was debating (as I’m a reseller for Koolance), weather or not to purchase the Koolance HX-360XC product or the Coolgate CG-360G2. If you believe otherwise please let me know. cost or space. Therefore we have to back away from our earlier strong claims. For this article we had used Martin’s radiator testing numbers (W/10DT) for push radiators to compare with our same (W/10DT) numbers. The definitions section of the contract, as well as the applicable codes state that all terms used shall be as defined by HI Standards... ISO, ASTM and other standards organizations but HI standards are the defacto . Maximum Pressure = 1. So I am trying to setup in a way so that when needed, the higher RPM fans push through enough CFM for pull fan to work with. We’re talking about physics, thermodynamics, all sorts of fun stuff. High pressure air flows to low pressure. Owners, engineers and plant operators have a reasonable expectation that the products they buy meet applicable laws, codes and regulations. I’ll post the results later in a couple of months once I’m finished with my (hopeful) new Hackintosh build. In other words ANY radiator with push/pull fans is significantly better than ANY radiator with push only fans at similar RPM. Generally the push fans are high static pressure (usually 3-pin DC). […] Push/Pull Radiator Setups or “How I learned to stop worrying and love that more fans = less no… […]. So, the problem is you have the center of the fan. A pull set-up is Infact the most effective. 3volvedcombat New Member. It is also the easiest to keep clean. Agreed – The Titans at 2100RPM are about equivalent to 1850RPM AP15s if you look at CFM through a rad – link here: https://martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com/2012/04/28/r9-fan-testing-gentle-typhoon-ap-29/, To be honest I think the bigger difference is in the general testbench setup itself. This means that it is acceptable to run one set of fans IF you have less clearance than 80mm. A friend once explained to me when another acquaintance asked me for some information which was somewhat confidential and I declined he was angry with me because in his culture, the . I have boots from LL Bean with a . Well im wanting to get a new computer that i am custom building myself and i want to run a push+pull configuration on a 360mm radiator, this means that i will have 6 120mm fans. Martin tested with a fixed pump power at approximately 1.5GPM while we calibrated (in these results) to 1.5GPM fixed flow rate. In addition to the codified requirements, there is an additional contractual requirement. I can still change the 3 additional fans; can you please suggest which one will be better: The NZXT X73 Aer P 2000 PWM - 36 dB(A) - 500 RPM (Min) - 73.11 CFM - 7.63 mm I know you mentioned that it’s hard enough to put just one of these bad boys in your CaseLabs PC Case, but I’m going to put TWO of them in. Folding@home team: 1. C1. This is definitely an updated version to SkinneeLabs.com’s rad reviews and Martinliquidlab’s review on radiators (found here: https://martinsliquidlab.wordpress.com/category/radiators/). Also, I would recommend putting the fan in a pull configuration rather than push, as it makes it way easier to clean dust from the radiator. They tend to have a reasonable, but as it is, a mistaken, expectation that every industry complies. As a result of your thorough testing I’m going to go with the Coolgate CG-360G2. Will I plan work or will it backfire? This time 1300RPM Push/Pull vs 1400RPM Push: Now the performance gap is even worse! What is push-pull cooling? H2. at this point the only pull fan with a shroud setup i see working is if i utilised the stock hydro fan shroud, and put my own 16' thermo in there, otherwise it is 2 Push … What's more appropriate? So that rules out any of our radiators in the review classed as “thick” anyway. same thing for your radiator/ac fans do they turn left or right? Let’s finally compare low speed fans – 750RPM Push/Pull vs 600RPM Push: Yes it is noisier – twice as many fans means that noise will increase by about a square root of 2 i.e. I'm looking to setup an H100 push/pull in an NZXT Switch 810 case. If you don’t use the same type of fans Push vs. PushPull you are comparing apples and oranges. So in other words FOR EQUIVALENT NOISE – Push/Pull on ANY radiator out performs Push on ANY radiator. Here I have shared about the different fan setup you can use in your pc build like push, pull and push/pull. Twin boomers such as the Cessna Skymaster and Adam A500 have the aircraft's tail suspended via twin booms behind the pusher propeller. Interestingly if we look at percentage of performance for each of those three radiators data points we see that Push is between 84 and 88% of the performance of Push/Pull. Yup! You’ll see there are two distinct groups – the Push/Pull radiators from 76% up, and the push only group from 40-50%. Adding on 50mm of fans means that’s a total of 80mm. Are you enjoying the December videos? Zero condition specs can only give you an indication of performance rather than the full picture of the PQ curve,Scythe are well known for reliable fan specs so to base a performance baseline from the specs provided is not unreasonable. I will be using it to cool a Q9550 LGA775. Comparing at 1850RPM and 1GPM flow we have a true apples to apples (the only flow rate tested with push fans): Here we can see, that a “good” radiator in push can in fact out perform a “bad” radiator in push/pull. 2B5. 5)Its a good idea to clean the H1. When you have a push config, the dust ends up between the radiator and fan. A dual fan system from Speedway Motors can fit a variety of applications, and flow up to 2.400 cfm. So let’s compare 1300RPM Push/Pull data vs 1800RPM Push data – here the 1300RPM Push/Pull fans should clearly be quieter than the 1800RPM push data, so how do they perform? However remember that we said that ANY radiator in push/pull beats out a push setup. Generally the push fans are high static pressure (usually 3-pin DC). Again, thank you for your help. Twitter: http: //www. This would allow him to . The updated info looks much better. Quote: Originally Posted by B NEGATIVE At no point did i say the specs were fair,i just provided the information. I was reading reviews about fans in push/pull on heatsinks and radiators and I realized something. does the fan turn left or right? This difference is small and if we were to compare the at a fixed noise level (i.e. People's expectations are simply not universal but defined by their own culture and experience. Because we were able to extract W/10DeltaT numbers from fast_fate’s testing that meant we could compare results with Martin’s excellent Radiator round up from a few years back. The Magicool G2 Slim costs $50. In a vertical setup, the warm air simply flows out via the holes on top of the CPU department, and, supposedly, the GPU fan should autonomously push the air out. But if you want to drive it daily with AC on then i would base the setup around keeping teh stock. Radiator fans in push / pull setup. 1600RPM Push/Pull vs 1850RPM Push) we might see a wash in terms of performance. No need to be fancy, just an overview. 100% would make an extra set of fans the equivalent of another radiator. Learn more about ASRocks new X99 Taichi at http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/X99%20Taichi/index.us.asp and Fatal1ty X99 Professional Gaming … Push/Pull Setup. Yes more fans = more money. How to set up a Push Pull setup on a Corsair H100. [Question] H150i Pro RGB Fan Setup - Push Pull I'm thinking about getting the H150i Pro AIO, and then mounting a second set of three corsair RGB fans to it. TONS of people have asked me about fan configurations for radiators and heatsinks. We’ll see what happens. In some industries (food, construction, etc. So when a manufacturer complains to me that our testing is unfair because their radiator is designed for performance with only set of fans I’m confused. Create your own unique website with customizable templates. Facebook: http: //www. Note there are differences in the setup. Now In expected the warranty to be limited to defects in materials and workmanship, not wear and tear. More testing will of course clarify things further! I'm looking at either the ML120 RGBs or the HD120s for the second set of fans on the radiator, as … But notice that we said ANY radiator. Write something about yourself. If a manufacturer says: Maximum Flow Rate = 9. I don't have the Corsair Link thing for fan speed control though I may buy it. The thinnest radiator that we tested was 30mm thick. The aim of this article is to educate people and hopefully as a result we get better performing radiators optimized for push/pull in the future. The key is to find the correct ratio between the 'push' and 'pull' fans. This case is going to be an absolute wind-tunnel so I think I can afford to run everything at the lowest speeds except for the H100 push/pull setup (plan to de-lid and O/C my Haswell i5 4670). But when a layman reads . Push, pull, or push/pull? The key is to find the correct ratio between the 'push' and 'pull' fans. Push-pull designs have the engines mounted above the wing as Dornier flying boats or more commonly on a shorter fuselage than conventional one, as for Rutan Defiant or Voyager canard designs. Even the H100i only beat a cheap 2 fan push/pull aircooling tower heatsink I had by about 4c with a 4.5Ghz overclock on a 4790K. The Airflow though a rad is not limited to the push fans CFM, the pull fan increases the airflow though the whole system by inducing a low pressure zone behind the rad while the push fan induces a high pressure zone in front. I think yot setup is good. Well saying say 90 cfm and 1.83' H20 to a marketing person's minds isn't lying or exaggerating The fact that 99.9999999% of people assume that it means 90 cfm at 1.83 is something to be smirked at. AP- 1. Joined May 10, 2009 Messages 1,514 (0.37/day) Location South California, The desert. Perhaps we will even see a super slim design to give the benefits of push/pull in tighter spaces. Fans I used were Scythe Gentle Typhoon (D1. Building a modern desktop PC is surprisingly easy, thanks to modular parts and a lot of solid engineering. This means that the Coolgate G2 that was our overall winner becomes an astonishing 115mm thick. However I have found that a fan pulling with at least a 1/2" shroud will give you the quietest setup. Page 1 of 2 - push or pull fan setup? And that even if you have to go down in radiator thickness until you can fit p/p. Push Pull Legs Routine: The Push Workout Exercise 1: Incline Barbell Bench Press. However remember that we said that ANY radiator in push/pull beats out a push setup. Let’s double check that at medium fan speeds. This is because as we’ve seen that “performance” and “one set of fans” are really mutually exclusive. https://www.ekwb.com/blog/push-pull-or-push-pull-on-radiators These numbers therefore are not precisely comparable but they are close enough for these purposes given the obvious and large differences in performance. Even though they are so similar I now think that they are still too different to compare directly. - posted in Virtual Mechanic: I wanna know from all the fellow starquesters. The Kukri fans even have an RPM advantage here. A pull set-up is Infact the most effective. But of course if you have less clearance than 80mm then the thickest radiator you can ever consider is 80mm-25mm = 55mm. ), this is strictly enforced and the . Let’s first compare high speed fans – 1850RPM Push/Pull fans on our testbench (blue) vs 1800RPM Push fans on Martin’s bench (red): The numbers are relative performance compared to the best radiator. I had same experiences with . – Push/Pull is quieter for the same performance, – Push/Pull performs better for the same fan speed, – Push/Pull can perform just as well in the same total space (in tight spaces though you will still be limited to push only), – Push/Pull can (but not always) perform better for less $$$. How To Setup a H1. Yes Push/Pull is better in performance than Push, but not necessarily when considering noise or price. Perhaps a bit of research from your pump providers county of origin would of told you this? This means that it is acceptable to run one set of fans IF you have less clearance than 80mm. Which will just cover the bottom of the width of my Origin Genesis PC Case. They looked it up, found the size and sent me a new pair.. Judge later overturned the verdict because the manufacturer defined the . Although the test setups were similar we found very different levels of power dissipation once we started to include push data in our own testing. Discussion in 'Water Cooling' started by 1Wolf, Aug 3, 2012. This is despite us specifically having award categories for low speed fans and for slim radiators. The only exception to this of course is if you were already buying a cheap radiator for a “push” setup! I went from a 3 tripple rad setup to one pa 120.3 in pull/push with the same temps . This is due in great part to the legal system here were parties have recourse via the courts for . Generally the push fans are high static pressure (usually 3-pin DC). Not only are there not statistics on what users really do but if that were the case the manufacturer could easily educate people on this (particularly those that offer fans for sale too). The original article remains below unmolested: After we published the 2015 Radiator Round Up data, there was some pushback from quite a few different manufacturers claiming our use of “Push/Pull” fans was “unfair” and it favored thicker radiators. S double check that at medium fan speeds ' started by 1Wolf, Aug 3, 2012 by,!, not wear and tear concerning noise, airflow and static pressure ( usually 3-pin DC ) is... `` Questions about push pull fan setups '' fans then you will get real value by adding some.! Slimmer radiator A500 have the center of the setup around keeping teh.! Thermodynamics, all sorts of fun stuff first Exercise we ’ ll be replacing martin ’ worth... Used were Scythe Gentle Typhoon ( D1 type of fans the equivalent of another radiator fan setups '' buying cheap. Earlier strong claims meet us emissions standards data on push with our own “ ”! Buying the cheapest radiator possible your case differences in performance than push, pull means goes... 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Remember that we said that ANY radiator with push/pull fans is significantly than... Their own culture and experience to 1.5GPM fixed flow Rate 2.400 CFM gutted fan ’ ll replacing... Rpm to about 1600rpm with shrouds will give you the best performance other. They buy meet applicable laws, codes and regulations static pressure ( usually DC... Remember that we tested was 30mm thick however remember that we tested was 30mm thick joined May,. Setup can be cheaper, higher performance and quieter than some “ push ” only setups additional increases. Of 100 % would make an extra set of fans ” are really mutually exclusive like... Ends up between the radiator and fan generally the push fans are high static pressure ( usually 3-pin )... In great part to the legal system here were parties have recourse via courts... Personally i have seen cheapest radiator possible with what i have shared about the fan... Own “ push ” only setups tested was 30mm thick the desert the first Exercise we ’ ll replacing... Posted in Virtual Mechanic: i wan na know from all the fellow starquesters push pull. Yes push/pull is better in performance than push, pull or push fans are high static pressure ( 3-pin... Irrelevant because they vary with resistance claims which were based on other more important factors e.g in and. Enough for these purposes given the obvious and large differences in performance than push, pull or fans. Test with * performance * in mind comparing apples and oranges +, and flow to. Genesis PC case re building a modern desktop PC is considerably more complex were! For equivalent noise – push/pull on ANY radiator out performs push on ANY radiator with fans. Us then set out to make a case for why this should be.. A variety of applications, and the highest push radiator is only 70! Present data that supports the two type of fans means that the products buy... On then i would base the setup that i will be using it to cool Q9550. Own culture and experience 3 tripple rad setup to one pa 120.3 in pull/push with the same of! You will get real value by adding some more na know from the... Realized something level ( i.e so i 'm planning on fooling around with some overclocking as top-mounted push-pull HAF... In these results ) to 1.5GPM fixed flow Rate said the best option to an. How to set up a push pull setup on a Corsair H100 calibrated ( in these results to... Our out of your case winner becomes an astonishing 115mm thick have found a. Of course, but not necessarily when considering noise or price considerably more complex an insult engineers plant...